DB Prediction: The Punisher vs The Heavy (Marvel Rivals vs Team Fortress)

(Shimish)

(Shimish)

(Scumbag Steve)

(Mr. Bob)

“Maybe we should go back to playing Overwatch 2”

~Twomad


While every member of a team has their distinct role, however sometimes all you need is some dude built like a brick shit house with a gun in their hands to get the job done.


Punisher, the judge, jury and executioner of Marvel Rivals


And Heavy, the minigun toying mercenary from Team Fortress 2


Before We Begin

What are we including?

To make it clear, for this blog we’ll be primarily focusing on the Marvel Rivals incarnation of The Punisher. This means we will only be using content from the official Marvel Rivals game and official Marvel Rivals comic series


So we will not be giving Punisher anything from the 616 Marvel Universe or The Marvel Cinematic Universe. 


Also given that Marvel Rivals is currently an ongoing game we note that since not every lore page is finished, and we assume there are going to be more seasons. note that we are currently on season 6.5 and the most modern hero to arrive in the game is Elsa Bloodstone. 


Heavy is pretty straight forward. We will be including the Game, Comics and any other promotional videos/images for TF2. Something that has been touched on by other people is that some of Heavy's arsenal is locked behind certain gamemodes/times of the year. Although for this blog we will be assuming he is within a circumstance where everything is available. 


CREDIT


Calcs were pulled from VSBW and this Doc. So BIG thanks to both of those of course.



Background


 The Punisher 

“I’m Not a Hero. I’m the Punisher.”


Frank Castle was a distinguished military veteran who was planning to spend his days resting. Until he watched his wife and daughter gunned down by a common thug, after losing the only thing he really held dear. Frank snapped and began a war on the dark criminal underbelly. Using his military experience, his anguish at watching his family die, an arsenal of futuristic weapons, and a super soldier serum he took, Frank spends his days being a dark vigilante, but unlike those so called “vigilantes” like Spider-Man. The Punisher thinks it’s not enough for these criminals to be captured and sent to the police, after all the law is a broken system, and the only thing that Frank thinks can stop criminals is final, lethal punishment. And The Punisher won’t cease his mission until every last round is fired 


Heavy

“Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe,maybe. I have yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet”


When he was young, Heavy/Misha had it rough to say the least. In 1941, his father had been executed for being a counter-revolutionary. Soon after Heavy along with his mother and three younger sisters (Zahnna, Yana and Bronislava) were captured and sent off to a North Siberian Gulag. This was until 3 months later when the Gulag was found burnt to the ground with every guard tortured to death. 


Afterwards Heavy and his family set up home in the Dzhugdzhur Mountains, Siberia. Eventually Heavy found himself under the work of Redmond Mann, as a mercenary in his fight against Blutarch Mann. The two brothers were at war with each other over some useless land in New Mexico their father had left them in the will. Heavy would fight in this war, sending his profits back to his family to provide for him. The experiences at the Gulag having made Heavy protecting his family.


But everything changed once Gray Mann stepped in, an unknown third brother to the Mann brothers, and killed both Redmond and Blutarch. Heavy fighting Gray Manns robots alongside the other Mercs up until Gray Mann took over the company and fired them all. Heavy would go back to his family, before being found and rejoining with the mercenaries to find the last bit of Australium on Earth. Taking down impossible odds against Gray Manns robots and the Team Fortress Classic mercenaries. And after all that Heavy would still keep in touch with his old team. Even showing up for the holiday get together. How nice!


Experience/Skill


Punisher

As you’ll see Frank is a master at weaponry, and it's not through spending days at the shooting range. Frank- as mentioned earlier -is a war veteran (which war we currently don’t know), but he is also a veteran of his war on crime, a war he has been able to wage for decades all the way into the year 2099 thanks to what is essentially a youth serum. Then of course the great time stream entanglement happened and now the people at the end of his gun went from crooks to the super heroes, super villains, fellow anti-heroes, and their numerous variations found throughout the multiverse.


Heavy

Heavy doesn't look like it but he is surprisingly intelligent. Hell the guy has a PHD in Russian Literature so you gotta give him some credit. But Heavy of course shines the brightest when he’s on the battlefield. Living in a place where the main source of meat is bears sorta conditions you for rough conditions. Fighting skilled gunsman, snipers, spies and more in who knows how many battles. Without even counting all the robots and magical creatures the team have faced over the years. All while still being considered the laughing stock of the mercenary world. Even with that title Heavy and the gang brought down Team Fortress Classic, who had previously bested all of The Administrators best. All somehow thanks to the team not possessing any sort of soul.


Arsenal/Equipment


Punisher




Knife 

His Melee Attack. It sure is sharp.


Health Pack

Always there when the healers I blame for losing don’t heal correctly


Guns

Adjudication is his Assault Rifle and Deliverance is his Shotgun. You use the rifle at long range and shotgun at close range everyone knows this. 


Smoke Grenade

A Grenade the Punisher launches from his gun. It knocks him back while damaging the opponent and surrounding them with smoke. 


Zip Line

A portable zip line. Punisher attaches it to where he wants to go and zips up to it. Perfect for going up to vantage points.


Turret

A portable turret punisher summons with a click of a button. It deals great damage, makes shots easier to hit, and protects Frank from the front. However he is left staying still and is useless from behind.


Ultimate Ability

JUDGE. JURY. EXECUTIONER!

Frank unleashes two giant Gatling guns and auto locking missile launchers to deal massive damage to any fool standing in his way. 


Armor

Marvel Rivals has a lot of skins, some of which even go to The Punisher. Given that some are armor we have chosen to give him these.


Default 

Punisher who was trapped in a forever battle on crime and was forced to adapt. Gives him a bullet proof vest.


Camo

Punisher who was trapped in the Vietnam War and was forced to adapt. Same thing as his default but he’s wearing camouflage.


Punisher 2099

Punisher who was trapped in a cyberpunk future and was forced to adapt. He actually protects his face and arms with metal armor.


Ronin Punisher

Punisher who was trapped in Ancient Japan and was forced to adapt. He gets some cool purple armor and an ancient gun. Hopefully it’s practical. 


Swimsuit Punisher

Punisher who was trapped in a summer gacha event and was forced to adapt. He gets a skull speedo and a water gun. 


Franken-Castle

Punisher who died because he was trapped and was forced to adapt. He is essentially a zombie now, with some of his human body being swapped out for mechanical parts.


Pirate Punisher 

Punisher who was trapped in Davy Jones’s Locker (in space) and was forced to adapt. The skin isn’t out yet but we know it exist lmao


Team Up Abilities

In Marvel Rivals certain characters get certain team up abilities. While the Punisher won’t get these characters, we have decided to give him the powers from the team ups to give each character everything.


Ammo Overload

A device crafted by Rocket Raccoon that allows infinite Ammo if Punisher is in the radius. 


Operation: Microchip.

An attachment to Black Widow’s Red Room Rifle. It modifies the rifle to shoot a red piercing beam attack that pierces through multiple characters and through armored characters like Thor and The Thing. While this is an upgrade to Black Widow’s weapon, the lore makes it clear it's an upgrade Frank applied and thus could potentially apply to his own guns.


Bestial Hunt

Daredevil gives Punisher a devil energy infused smoke grenade. It can damage and blind enemies 


Heavy


Primarily Weapons

    • Sasha: Heavy’s stock and most iconic of his guns. She weighs 150 kilograms and fires two hundred dollar, custom-tooled cartridges at ten thousand rounds per minute. It cost four hundred thousand dollars to fire this weapon for 12 seconds.

    • Iron Curtain: Basic reskin of Sasha. Nothing much beyond that

    • Natasha: 100% chance to slow down targets on hit and gives a 20% damage resistance while it is spun-up. Deals 25% less damage than Sasha and has a 30% longer spinup time.

    • Brass Beast: 20% more damage than Sasha and gives the same 20% resistance as Natasha. At the cost of having a 50% slower spinup time and giving 60% slower move speed when deployed

    • Tomislav: 20% faster spinup time and better accuracy than Sasha. It also comes with the "Silent Killer" effect of no maintained spin-up sound. But it comes with the cost of 20% slower firing speed

    Huo-Long Heater: Creates rings of fire around the players feet when spun up and deals greater damage to players on fire. Deals 10% less damage than Sasha and consumes additional 4 ammo per second while spun up

Secondary Weapons

  • Shotgun: Just the stock shotgun. What more do you want me to say you know what a shot gun is

  • Family Business: 33% increased clip size and 15% increased attack speed over the shotgun at the cost of 15% damage penalty 

  • Panic Attack: Fires 50% more bullets per shot over the stock and faster deploy time. Comes with a 20% damage penalty and is less accurate with each successive shot

  • Sandvich: Restores 300 health over 4 seconds when eaten by Heavy. He can even toss it at other players to restore health.

  • Robo-Sandvich: Same as the normal one. Probably tastes worst id imagine

  • Dalokoh’s Bar:: Restores 100 health over about 4 seconds. Will also give 50 over heal if he’s at full health.

  • Fishcake: Same stats as Dalokh’s Bar. What the fuck even is SpaceChem

  • Buffalo Steak Sandvitch: For 16 seconds The Heavy has 30% increased movement speed and guaranteed mini-crits. But making all damage dealt to the Heavy takes 20% more health and he can only attack with melee. This is not a fucking sandwitch

Second Banana: Restores 200 health over about 4 seconds. Had a faster recharge rate than the Sandvitch. Maybe if this item was better Heavy wouldn't be so fat from those sandwiches



Melee Weapons



  • Fists: I don't need to explain what these do

  • Apoco-Fists: Same as the regular fists

  • Killing Gloves of Boxing: Grants 5 seconds of guaranteed critical hits on all weapons after a kill. Swings 20% slower

  • Gloves of Running Urgently: Grants 30% increased movement speed when active but slowly drains Heavy’s maximum health as well

  • Bread Bite: Same stats as the Gloves of Running Urgently. The teeth probably hurt

  • Warrior’s Spirit: Gives a 30% damage bonus over the regular fist and recovers 50 health on kill. Makes Heavy 30% more vulnerable to damage

  • Fists of Steel: Made specifically to beat the snot out of opponents Pineal Glands (Not even Mann Co. knows what those are). Reduces all ranged damage taken by heavy by 40%. But at the cost of doubling melee damage taken, reducing maximum overheal and reduces his heal rate.

  • Eviction Notice: We have gotten many of these in our lives. Deals 60% less damage than the fists and maximum health is drained as well. Has 40% increased firing speed, 15% increased movement speed and a speed boost for 3 seconds after hitting an opponent. 

  • Holiday Punch: Critical hits do no damage, but to make up for it it makes opponents hit laugh. Leaving them open for other attacks

  • Saxxy/Golden Frying Pan: Killed enemies freeze into solid Australium statues

  • Frying Pan: Yeah

  • Conscientious Observer: Yeah

  • Freedom Staff: Yeah

  • Bat Outta Hell: Yeah

  • Memory Maker: Yeah

  • Ham Shank: Yeah

  • Necro Smasher: Yeah

Prinny Machete: Yeah. This one's actually pretty cool


Powerup Canteen

When filled at an Upgrade Station, the canteen can supply 3 charges of 1 of 5 different buffs.

  • Ubercharge: Supplies 5 seconds of Ubercharge, making user completely invulnerable to all damage sources

  • Crit Boosted: Increases the rate critical hits are dealt

  • Refill Clips and Ammo: Instant ammo and clip refill

  • Teleport to Spawn: Immediately returns user to respawn room

  • Building Upgrade: Upgrades user’s building to level 3 and fully repairs all existing buildings (very useful in this fight for sure)


Spellbook Magazine

Used for casting various different spells (See Powers/Abilities section)


Grappling Hook

You know what this can do man


Mannpower Powerups

Various powerups from the Mannpower game mode Heavy can be found scattered around the map.

  • Strength: Double damage for all weapons along with distance damage fall-off immunity

  • Resistance: Reduces incoming damage by 50%

  • Vampire: All damage dealt is returned as health (Although miniguns return 0.6x as much health) along with a 25% damage resistance and increased max health.

  • Reflect: 80% of damage received is returned to the attacker. 100% of sentry gun fire is reflected back at it. Also increases max health

  • Haste: Increases movement, reload and firing speed. Doubles clip size and max ammo count

  • Regenerate: Lets them regenerate health and ammo

  • Precision: Bullet spread reduced by 90% along with distance damage fall off immunity

  • Agility: Gives 40% speed boost, 80% jump height increase, 5x faster weapon switch time, immunity to fall damage along with increased grappling hook speed

  • Knockout: Only lets Heavy use melee and his grappling hook. To make up for it Heavy gets increased health, immunity to airblast and damage pushback, increased melee damage to buildings and punching enemies forces them to drop their powerups

  • King: Increases max health by 100, fire rate and reload speed are also increased. Health is regenerated at a 0.3x Heavy's base health regeneration. Shares effects with nearby team members 

  • Plague: Increases the range Heavy can pick up health kits. Can give the Plague to opponents he touches. Plague victims will bleed to death in 10 seconds unless they pick up a health kit or touch a resupply cabinet

  • Supernova: Lets grappling hook unleash a supernova attack which stuns nearby enemies. Also causing them to drop any of their own powerups.

  • Revenge: Gives full crit power for 30 seconds and 2x damage to buildings


Parachute

Wonder what that does


Bumper Car

Holy Shit


Powers/Abilities


Punisher

Enhanced Vision

The Punisher’s Passive ability.


It allows him to see enemies that leave his line of sight after 3 seconds, giving him temporary wall hacks.


Environmental Sight

This allows Frank to see environmental objects and see which ones can be destroyed and which ones can’t 



Galacta Schizophrenia 

You know those Galacta voicelines you hear in matches? Yeah canonically that’s her speaking to the characters as a “voice in your head”, she’s even willing to assist you if need be, usually by giving advice and alerting you to enemy positions.


Acausality

Due to the great time entanglement messing with all of space time, the cosmos of Marvel Rivals (and thus all of its inhabitants) are not affected by any changes to their past, even if said changes amount to the complete removal of said past from the timestream. 


Resistances

  • Radiation: Him along with the Marvel Rivals cast can survive hits from Bruce Banners Gamma tech

  • Fire/Intense Heat: Punisher can survive attacks from Human Torch and his supernova attack 

  • Electricity: Frank can survive pure lightning bolts thrown at him by Thor and Storm, literal gods of thunder 

  • Extreme Cold: Can survive attacks from Luna Snow. One even being called Absolute Zero.

  • Sleep: while he can be put to sleep by Mantis, he can also use his own strength to wake up 

  • Possible Limited Soul Manipulation Maybe: Doctor Strange separates the Marvel Rivals fighters body and soul. With some voice lines hinting at that the cast force there souls back into there bodies themselves

Invisibility Negation: The Punisher’s weapons can lock onto people  “even when their invisible”


Heavy


Taunt Attack

Heavy fires an imaginary bullet from his fingers. I like to call this weaponized schizophrenia. Perhaps he can make an invisible ultimate nullifier to kill the punisher. But that shall be a topic saved for later



Spells

As explained in BTV we will be allowing Heavy the use of the various Halloween exclusive spells. Which Heavy can cast using his Spellbook Magazine, Fancy Spellbook or Fireproof Secret Diary


Regular Spells

  • Fire Ball: Two charges. Sends out a ball of fire that sets enemies on fire in a large radius.

  • Blast Jump: Two charges.Propells the caster into the air while also healing them and dealing minor damage to those nearby

  • Overheal: Single charge. Spellcaster and all nearby allies are given Ubercharge for 1 second along with rapid healing over 3 seconds

  • Swarm of Bats: Two charges. Shoots a glowing ball, enemies hit with it are assaulted by bats.

  • Pumpkin MIRV: Single charge. Creates a ring of pumpkin bombs

  • Stealth: Single charge.Cloaks the caster, making them invisible. Will break if they try and attack while invisible

  • Shadow Leap: Two charges. Fires a small energy ball that will teleport the caster to wherever it lands


Rare Spells

  • MONOCULUS: Summons a Monoculus

  • Skeleton Horde: Summons several skeletons 

  • Ball O’ Lightning: Fires a wave of electricity that deals damage and sucks in targets

  • Meteor Shower: Rains down several small meteorites on the targeted area

  • Power Up: Shrinks down the spell caster, making them harder to hit and gaining boost to their speed.


Mann vs Machine Upgrades

The Mercs can get a plethora of different upgrades to themselves and gear. These include


Class Upgrades

  • +25% Blast Resistance

  • +25% Bullet Resistance

  • +10% Movement Speed

  • +2 Health Regen

  • +20% Jump Height

  • +25% Fire Resistance

  • +30% Crit Resistance 


Primary Weapon Upgrades

  • Destroy Projectile

  • Knockback Rage

    • Generates rage by dealing damage. Once the rage meter fills they can halve all incoming damage by 50%

  • +1 Projectile Penetration

  • +50% Ammo Capacity

  • +10% Firing Speed

  • +25 Health on Kill


Secondary Weapon Upgrades

  • +50% Clip Size

  • Projectile Penetration

  • +20% Reload Speed

  • +15% Recharge Rate

  • +10% Firing Speed


Melee Weapon Upgrades

  • +10% Attack Speed

  • +25 Health On Kill

  • +25% Damage

  • Armor Penetration

  • +2s Crits On Kill


Resistances



Feats


Punisher


Heavy

  • Broke out of a Gulag with his mother and sisters when he was still a child

  • Was the first of the Mercs to try out Medic’s Uber Charge. And with it he mowed down a horde of BLU Soldiers that had demolished the other RED team members

  • Faced off against Merasmus, Monoculus and the Horseless Headless Horseman with his fellow Mercs

  • Helped the rest of the TF2 Mercenaries take down the Team Fortress Classic Mercenaries. Who were in every way superior to them.

  • Played poker with Tycho, Strong Bad and Max



Power

Punisher


Heavy



Speed


Punisher

  • Frank has to deal with a variety of projectiles on the field. Such as arrows, sniper rounds, lightning and cosmic blasts

  • What else you want 


Heavy

  • The slowest of the Mercs lmao

  • All Mercs have to deal with or move in tandem with arrows, bullets and even laser weapons

  • Can use the Meteor spell. Meteorites can move pretty darn fast I reckon. Mercs are also capable of moving relative to said meteors (Mach 12.31 to Mach 30.22)


Durability

Punisher


  • Can survive basic attacks by all the characters brought up in scaling



Heavy


Scaling


Punisher


Vanguards


Duelists


Strategists 


Deadpool


Non Playables


Heavy


Offense Classes


Defence Classes


Support Classes


Other


Weaknesses



Punisher

Behind all the guns, vengeance, and black apparel, Frank is still a human being which means he doesn’t really have any notable super powers like the majority of his team mates. Making it to where if he is somehow left no firearms to use he’d be out of luck. His turret and machine gun missile mechanism- while powerful weapons -leave him very vulnerable from behind. More so if the team comp sucks major ass, why is there 5 DPS AND NOT A SINGULAR HEALER?!?!?!??! (They’re playing for Vibes)


Heavy

Heavy has a lot of fire power both with his guns and massive muscles. But obviously due to his size he is an easy target, not helped by the fact that he isn't the fastest Merc around. Which makes sense since he is built to be a tank in-game, but obviously without any Medics to patch him up it's not gonna be a plus for him. His short temper doesn't help him much either. Should also be noted that the Mercs aren't exactly equipped with the highest quality gear. Their weapons commonly break in the middle of combat.


Also for some odd reason. He was in a game with Tycho and decided not to rip him in half.


Before the Verdict


Marvel Rivals Cosmology

Marvel Rivals is a multiverse story in which the matches you play determine the fate of existence (more or less). But what are the exacts of that multiverse? Well while the multiverse has been left a wreck after the timestream entanglement killed “most” of the multiverse, however according to Dr. Doom there were “countless” universes beforehand, and other statements from Glacta paint it more as the multiverse getting rewritten than a major chunk getting taken out. Though the looming threat of multiversal destruction still looms, which makes the exact specifics unclear, it's safe to assume there's still at least a handful of universes left though.


There are potential ways to argue Marvel Rivals Cosmology and power as a whole much higher than this. For instance there is the White Hot Room. Which was stated to be extradimensional by Rocket Racoon and then confirmed by Jean Gray right after. 


And while not really a cosmology thing, Ultron was able to capture the Phalanx, who’s above the dimensions of the timestream, including the White Hot Room, and Ultron siphons that power into arakko, which every character has a chance to destroy if they get that map.


So Multiversal+  is the safest and most reliable end scale of the cosmology and end of power overall. But depending on your standards one could argue Higher Dimensional scaling for the Rivals cosmology and cast as a whole.


Does Francis G. Castle even scale?

In a short answer. It’s complicated.


First thing to note that while common Marvel Comics powerscales work on essentially a caste system of street tiers, heralds, and what not, given that Marvel Rivals is a separate continuity it wouldn't really be sound to apply the same standards as typical Marvel Comics vs debates. This is important because from our research we haven't really found a canonical reason as to why characters like Thor or Storm aren’t just atomizing other characters like Black Widow and Hawkeye, and given the stakes of these battles there’s also no reason to believe they’re holding back. So could you scale Frank’s punches with the strikes of his verse’s heaviest hitters? Probably not, because his only melee attack is the dedicated melee attack all characters have and his is him stabbing people with a knife, and we doubt the optimal or intended Punisher play style is to stab everyone.


HIs guns however have a stronger argument for scaling because- well -that’s how he kills these schmucks in spandex to begin with, like it’s a team shooter, you shoot people, it’s a team shooter, yeah. Speed is actually pretty easy to call because Frank would need to be at least within other character’s ball park in order for him to properly aim, shoot, and dodge attacks from them. Though durability is another toss up, because as stated earlier the fact that these multiversal threats aren’t vaporizing Mr. Castle with just a breath is why this is a whole conversation to begin with, though certain ultimates can one shot Frank so perhaps scaling his durability to high end stats is off the table, though scaling at least his high end weapons to these types of threats seems pretty reasonable.


Sorry if these seem to be way more of suggestions to the question of if Frank scales than answers, this whole debate is a result of Marvel Rivals not really having a defined powerscale, and the best info we have for where Frank could fit in if there was one being the in game matches where he can just shoot Ultron to death with his guns. Which leads to the consensus of this blog that while Frank definitely isn’t matching beings like the Hulk with his pure strength alone, and where his durability exactly scales is up to interpretation, his speed and at least high end gear should be able to scale to higher end feats of the Marvel Rivals universe.


Where Is Heavy On The TF2 Food Chain?

The Mercs: I really don't need to explain why Heavy scales to the Mercs lmao. A few things worth noting feat wise tho. Mainly that Heavy of course has no way to scale to the speed ends brought up for Scout’s BONK. There is also Scout moving the big hollow “rock” feat. Which is like…probably not lol. All we see him move is one part of the rock which Heavy moves away. Once they are inside there isn't any sign of it having moved on any other part of it. So the feat getting anywhere worth calling is a bit of a stretch.


Merasmus: The Mercs objectively scale physically to Merasmus no questions. The soldier himself was enough to do so. The Mercs weapons are also more than enough to damage the guy. But magic wise? Well the Mercs are able to survive hits from Merasmus’ magic. But it's unlikely they would scale to the full force of his magic. Anytime the Mercs fight Merasmus it is in a Team v 1 type of deal. Can we downscale the Mercs from Merasmus’ magic? Yeah we think so. Does this mean kilotons for the Mercs? Probably not. Nothing to really suggest Merasmus’ spells he uses against the Mercs even get to this level to begin with. He pulls all his spells from a spell book (or worse, the internet) so to say “one spell does this so another spell equals that” just seems a bit eh. 


Saxton Hale: Heavy can NOT scale fully to Saxton at all. But it's fair to say he can downscale from him if nothing else. Heavy temporarily pulled against a casual Saxton and Scout survived being swung around like a weapon by Saxton against a Yeti. The VS Saxton Hale mode also shows that the Mercs CAN hurt Saxton with their weapons. Saxton still of course is way stronger but it at least backs up them downscaling Saxton to some degree


Manmelter and Cow Manger: Heavy does not have these weapons lol. No matter if you think the high end interpretations for these weapons are valid or not doesn't necessarily matter if Heavy doesn't get them to begin with. Although to clarify we DONT buy the crazy high Kiloton to Megaton interpretation of the feats. But its not like ot matters to begin with.


Other High End Equipment: The Payload explosion is a very decent feat. But can the Mercs scale to it? Nahhhhhhh. The Mercs were having a lot of trouble with a Bread Monster, and weren't able to kill it with their weapons. Instead needing one of these Payload bombs to kill it. What about the Yeti everyone LOVES?! Well ignoring how many people have mentioned the problems with the Yeti’s statement. A similar Yeti just casually kills off a bunch of the Mercs. So even with Saxton Hale downscaling it wouldn't make much sense for the Mercs to be even close to this feat.


TF2 Speed Shit

TF2 stats are always fun to talk about!


Not gonna go into this one too much. Every TF2 discussion covers the same stuff so we'll just give our quick little thoughts on a couple things.


TF2 Lasers: Do they move at light speed? Possibly. The different descriptions of these items would sorta suggest it. C.A.P.P.E.R. and Posmon specifically likely fire out EM Waves which move at light speeds. Even the Manmelter can be argued the projectiles work similarly to a particle accelerator. There are some things to argue against this. Some will point out how some item descriptions can be over exaggerated. Some will point out some gameplay moments and use them to poke holes in them at light speed. We think it's a fine enough high end. The holes one can poke into it hold it back from being where we place TF2 speed at a reasonable end, but even with holes it may have, we think them potentially being light speed holds some water.


Hammer Units: We don't think Hammer Units should be used for scaling. There is a VSBW thread that I believe goes over it fairly well. But ultimately using them in calcs ends up giving you a bunch of numbers that don't really make any sense. The 20.955 m/s Soldier Rockets probably  being the biggest example of Hammer Units giving ridiculous outputs. For example, that's a little less than twice as fast as the world's fastest man. Feel free to disagree with us, but we don't think they should be used.


 Can Heavy Create The Ultimate Nullifier

Yeah



Predictions



Shimish

(Punisher will clean up Gotham)


We were originally going to do marvel rivals vs team fortress 2 as a 6V6 but we decided against it because it was unfair.

We thought this matchup would be more fair.

it wasn’t.

 Heavy has the arsenal advantage by variety but it isn’t even by power of the arsenal. Because punisher’s arsenal out scales heavy despite the variety 


You can make an argument that heavy’s variety could overwhelm pun pun 

But not only are most of Heavy’s abilities not going to be useful for him, his useful ones just delay the inevitable against Punisher who just overwhelms him with stats.

His fireball and electricity?

Punisher resists

His summons?

The Punisher is stronger than all of them.

His invisibility

A super counter for Frank.

Heavy’s only useful one is the bleed out. Which won’t matter because the punisher can kill him faster. And the reflecting damage is useful but it’s only temporary.

Adding onto the fact Galacta can tell Punisher about tricks The Heavy can do. 

And also the fact Punisher can shoot him with his Multi gun it’s kind of over man 

There’s really nothing else to add he has a Multi gun 

Punisher also has a great speed edge and nothing heavy can really do besides reflect his own damage back at him

Punisher has virtually no way to lose if he just shoots the fucking big and fat ass target 

It seems Facing Punisher was Heavy’s FINAL JUDGEMENT. 

The winner is the Punisher 


Scumbag Steve

(Lowkey Overwatch 2 Better)


I really thought this was gonna be a more interesting outcome when we began. Sadly not so much. But might as well give a breakdown regardless.


STATS

Heavy is the most powerful of any of the main TF2 cast. With even people on the weaker end like Scout surviving explosions worth 0.007 Tons of TNT. Surviving explosions isn't incredibly uncommon for the TF2 cast. We have characters like Soldier and Demoman surviving their own explosive weaponry. Pyro survived a greater sized explosion than Scout worth around 0.72 Tons of TNT


Speed wise Heavy should at least land in the Subsonic. With the Mercs being able to react to the Solders rockets. One of the more direct showings being Medic blocking several of them with his Medi-Gun’s shield. One can easily push it higher with feats like Demoman outrunning an explosion and the Meteorite spell. Which would net Heavy anywhere from Supersonic+ (around Mach 8) all the way to around High Hypersonic (Mach 30). If we really pushed it we could get him downscaling the 0.07c Scout feat if you really wanted.


Now how can Punisher match up against this?


Well…scaling him to Wolverine who did the whole moon slice thing would place him around 290 Pentatons of TNT. Wolverine isn't exactly viewed as a top tier in Marvel Rivals so physically scaling should be too absurd. If you want some more moon-fuckery, Blade uses Dracula's weapons. Dracula being able to cause an eternal eclipse. The output reached a whopping 169 Yottatons of TNT.


Rivals scaling as a whole has been a bit of a head scratcher. But scaling Punisher at least relative physically to the likes of Blade and Wolverine seems fair in our opinions. If you wanted to go higher there are planetary destruction statements from Jean Gray or even higher statements of affecting entire realms/universes. These are a bit high and quite unlikely for Frank to scale to physically. Not like he really needs them


That Wolverine feat would net around Relativistic (0.34c) for the Punisher. You could argue him higher, vaguely around MFTL+ given symbiotes travel between stars. Although no real number can be placed, no timeframe given.


No more discussion needed. The Punisher takes stats.

ARSENAL


Punisher takes arsenal in terms of sheer power. Especially with the enhancement he used on Black Widows gun which he should be able to put onto his own guns. Also his weapons have easier arguments to scaling to the higher cosmic feats than he does physically. But what he does lack is overall variety. Turret, Grappling Hook, Rifle, Shotgun and Smoke Grenades aren't anything Heavy doesn't have himself or hasn't dealt with in the past.


Meanwhile Heavy has several miniguns, shotguns and melee options. And more out there stuff like his healing food items. Or his powerup canteen which would allow him to access Ubercharge, which could temporarily allow him to tank some of Punisher’s bullets. And with Powerups in the mix Heavy would have options like reflecting damage,  healing and even inflicting status effects.


Its a close call but Heavy takes arsenal

POWERS/ABILITIES


Another one that should go to Heavy. 


Punisher has a few abilities that will help out, and even some resistances to a few of Heavy’s powers given resistances and his physical advantages. 


But even still, Heavy has access to summons, invisibility, teleportation, healing and various other magical effects. Not to mention Mann vs Machine giving Heavy upgrades to resistances, healing and damage output. The damage output wouldn't be enough to close the stat gap however. Which a lot of his damaging/stat buff options just aren't gonna be too helpful here.


But still, given sheer variety id give powers and abilities to Heavy



SKILLS/EXERIENCE


This one shouldn't need much explanation


Heavy fights against a wizard, various monsters, robots and other trained gunmen sure. But there's nothing that can't be said for Punisher. In fact, Punisher is far more impressive, dealing with magicians like Doctor Strange, martial artist like Iron First and other well trained soldiers like Winter Soldier. And that's only scratching the surface of the Marvel Rivals cast. And not even talking about how Punisher is a trained war veteran.


So very easily Punisher takes skills/experience


So overall I really just gotta give it to Punisher. Even being really generous to Heavy in some categories he really just can't make a dent in Punisher before just being shot in the head


The winner is Punisher


Mr. Bob

Jesus Christ


Final Verdict


The Punisher

“I'll Meet My Family… BUT NOT TODAY.”

Advantages

  • Took every physical stat by a wide margin regardless of end used

  • More powerful guns for close and long range

  • Far more experienced fighter

  • Had abilities Heavy couldn’t counter…



Disadvantages

  • … but didn’t have enough actual abilities against Heavy

  • Less variety overall with weapons and abilities 

  • Why did he say this

  • Is unable to resist the Ultimate Nullifier (yet)


The Heavy

“ Cry Some More!”

Advantages

  • Far wider and more versatile arsenal

  • Ultimate Nullifier could cause some issues

  • Had more abilities…

  • Could potentially win the inventory royale (blog leak)


Disadvantages 

  • … but Punisher’s stats and resistances made most of them moot.

  • Physically weaker, slower and less durable even with max leeway

  • Weapons were laughably weaker than what Punisher was packing

  • Less skilled overall in combat in comparison to Punisher



The Winner is The Punisher



Overall Tally-

The Punisher- 3 (Shimish, Scumbag Steve, Mr. Bobert)

The Heavy-0 (POOTIS)




NEXT TIME





Axe Cop vs Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo (Axe Cop vs Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo)









Comments

  1. Four StoogesMarch 2, 2026 at 7:07 PM

    "Hi, this is Bob and i'd just like to say
    1. Thanks for reading
    2. We're so excited for Axe Cop vs Bobobo, been in the making for a good while now
    3. Blogger is a raggedy ass website"
    ~Mr. Bobert

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